Meeting Notes 2017 10 31 - Revision history

Tomchristmas: Reverting changes

2017-11-07T06:51:55Z

Reverting changes

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	* Ryan: City College is starting to build makerspaces and we're going to have a somewhat large meeting tomorrow 2-4pm at the CC library media center (3rd floor, first floor from the front entrance w/ the hill) which is going to become one of the makerspaces. I'd be happy if anyone could make it or message me any info you'd like me to bring up. I'm @pyconaut on slack. The mediacenter one is going to be mostly computer and VR dev stuff, not so much electronics hacking. It's a large space tho and is in the library, and it will be public access, as CC library is a public library, so everyone at noisebridge can use it.		* Ryan: City College is starting to build makerspaces and we're going to have a somewhat large meeting tomorrow 2-4pm at the CC library media center (3rd floor, first floor from the front entrance w/ the hill) which is going to become one of the makerspaces. I'd be happy if anyone could make it or message me any info you'd like me to bring up. I'm @pyconaut on slack. The mediacenter one is going to be mostly computer and VR dev stuff, not so much electronics hacking. It's a large space tho and is in the library, and it will be public access, as CC library is a public library, so everyone at noisebridge can use it.

	~~a cop…but it wasn’t his masturbation that shocked her so much as it was the size of his penis. Fuck…it was as big as…as my fucking leg…that’s just not possible…that’s not even human.~~
	Concentrating, she closed her eyes and tried to revisit the moment when she saw him just before hitting the bump in the road. Replaying the event, she saw him clearly in her mind…his glazed over expression, his eyes…his eyes looked wrong…no pupils…just white…white eyes. Looking down she could clearly envision the gigantic dick…its huge head swollen and shiny…nearly purple…semen oozing out the top of it and then…at the last second, the boy’s head tilted upward…as if to look back at her as she glared at him…and the dick suddenly exploded with nasty jizz all over the driver’s side back window…and that’s when she’d lost control of the bike.

51.15.82.2 at 23:04, 6 November 2017

2017-11-06T23:04:26Z

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	* Ryan: City College is starting to build makerspaces and we're going to have a somewhat large meeting tomorrow 2-4pm at the CC library media center (3rd floor, first floor from the front entrance w/ the hill) which is going to become one of the makerspaces. I'd be happy if anyone could make it or message me any info you'd like me to bring up. I'm @pyconaut on slack. The mediacenter one is going to be mostly computer and VR dev stuff, not so much electronics hacking. It's a large space tho and is in the library, and it will be public access, as CC library is a public library, so everyone at noisebridge can use it.		* Ryan: City College is starting to build makerspaces and we're going to have a somewhat large meeting tomorrow 2-4pm at the CC library media center (3rd floor, first floor from the front entrance w/ the hill) which is going to become one of the makerspaces. I'd be happy if anyone could make it or message me any info you'd like me to bring up. I'm @pyconaut on slack. The mediacenter one is going to be mostly computer and VR dev stuff, not so much electronics hacking. It's a large space tho and is in the library, and it will be public access, as CC library is a public library, so everyone at noisebridge can use it.

			a cop…but it wasn’t his masturbation that shocked her so much as it was the size of his penis. Fuck…it was as big as…as my fucking leg…that’s just not possible…that’s not even human.
			Concentrating, she closed her eyes and tried to revisit the moment when she saw him just before hitting the bump in the road. Replaying the event, she saw him clearly in her mind…his glazed over expression, his eyes…his eyes looked wrong…no pupils…just white…white eyes. Looking down she could clearly envision the gigantic dick…its huge head swollen and shiny…nearly purple…semen oozing out the top of it and then…at the last second, the boy’s head tilted upward…as if to look back at her as she glared at him…and the dick suddenly exploded with nasty jizz all over the driver’s side back window…and that’s when she’d lost control of the bike.

51.15.217.56: fix formatting

2017-11-03T19:18:42Z

fix formatting

Show changes

Beka at 05:30, 3 November 2017

2017-11-03T05:30:47Z

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	Ryan: City College is starting to build makerspaces and we're going to have a somewhat large meeting tomorrow 2-4pm at the CC library media center (3rd floor, first floor from the front entrance w/ the hill) which is going to become one of the makerspaces. I'd be happy if anyone could make it or message me any info you'd like me to bring up. I'm @pyconaut on slack. The mediacenter one is going to be mostly computer and VR dev stuff, not so much electronics hacking. It's a large space tho and is in the library, and it will be public access, as CC library is a public library, so everyone at noisebridge can use it.		Ryan: City College is starting to build makerspaces and we're going to have a somewhat large meeting tomorrow 2-4pm at the CC library media center (3rd floor, first floor from the front entrance w/ the hill) which is going to become one of the makerspaces. I'd be happy if anyone could make it or message me any info you'd like me to bring up. I'm @pyconaut on slack. The mediacenter one is going to be mostly computer and VR dev stuff, not so much electronics hacking. It's a large space tho and is in the library, and it will be public access, as CC library is a public library, so everyone at noisebridge can use it.

	~~= End of Meeting =~~

	~~# Return the [[membership binder]] to its rightful location.~~
	~~# Discuss any items for which there was not time during the meeting.~~
	~~# Enjoy the company of your fellow hacker, robot, or robothacker.~~

	~~== Note taker posts the notes ==~~
	~~# Clean and tidy the meeting notes including removing all these really verbose instructions.~~
	~~# Fill out the short summary at the top listing just announcements, consensus items, discussion topics, and names of new members and philanthropists.~~
	~~# Copy paste the notes to the [http://www.noisebridge.net//Next_meeting next meeting] page. (They will become [[Last meeting]] at midnight.)~~
	# Email the meeting summary to [mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net?subject=MeetingNotes Noisebridge Discuss] and [mailto:noisebridge-announce@lists.noisebridge.net?subject=MeetingNotes Noisebridge Announce] lists.
	~~# CC on the email treasurer@noisebridge.net and secretary@noisebridge.net if there are new members and philanthropists.~~
	~~# Edit the [[Current_Consensus_Items\|Current Consensus Items]] if anything is proposed for consensus next week.~~
	~~# Edit the [[Consensus_Items_History\|Consensus Items History]] if anything was reached consensus or failed to reach consensus this week.~~

	~~== Fun things to do after ==~~
	* Reprise of the [[Hackernationale]]. [This is anarchy - we do what the wiki says!]
	* [[PGP\|PGP Key Signing]] could happen now (if it doesn't happen '''before''' any given Meeting). Ask others around the space or check the [[PGP\|list]] to see who wants in on the action.


	~~[[Category:Meeting Notes]]~~

Beka: /* Zach's discussion item */

2017-11-03T05:30:28Z

Zach's discussion item

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	Jarrod: summary: What's quorum?? Altered text?? What really is the process?? Is slack required, or not??		Jarrod: summary: What's quorum?? Altered text?? What really is the process?? Is slack required, or not??

	Augur: Can ppl retroactively block b/c this was mentioned in slack but it sounds shady.		Augur: Can ppl retroactively block b/c this was mentioned in slack but it sounds shady. Torrie mentioned effective retroactive blocking by not doing the work to make a thing happen, eg. financial work by the treasurer.
	Torrie ~~mentions~~ effective retroactive blocking by not doing the work to make a thing happen, eg. financial work by the treasurer.

	Adrian: What's up w/ quorum?		Adrian: What's up w/ quorum?

Beka: /* Discussion Items */

2017-11-03T05:30:08Z

Discussion Items

Beka: /* Proposals from last week */

2017-11-03T05:29:27Z

Proposals from last week

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	''(Add any items which are consensed upon or someone has raised a principle objection for to the [[Consensus Items History]] page.)''		''(Add any items which are consensed upon or someone has raised a principle objection for to the [[Consensus Items History]] page.)''

	Zach's elevator repair fund. Jarrod: no one in opposition, 3 members present. Quorum. Consensed!		Zach's elevator repair fund. Jarrod: no one in opposition, 3 members present (Alex Peake present for quorum). Quorum. Consensed!

	== [[ Current Consensus Items \| Proposals for next week ]] ==		== [[ Current Consensus Items \| Proposals for next week ]] ==

Beka: /* Membership Binder */

2017-11-03T05:28:58Z

Membership Binder

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	* Remember to applaud new members when they return.		* Remember to applaud new members when they return.

	Jarrod: NB is run by the members of the space technically. Run by everyone in the space at any given time, but officially governed through Consensus. Ppl who participate are the Members, who take on additional responsibilities to keep noisebridge running, make sure interesting things are happening, things get repaired, etc. Ppl who think NB is an important part of the world as they see it, and put in time and effort to keep it in existence. Made members through the consensus process. Which is...		Jarrod: NB is run by the members of the space technically. Run by everyone in the space at any given time, but officially governed through Consensus. Ppl who participate are the Members, who take on additional responsibilities to keep noisebridge running, make sure interesting things are happening, things get repaired, etc. Ppl who think NB is an important part of the world as they see it, and put in time and effort to keep it in existence. Made members through the consensus process. Which is...
	Zach: A very very important process of how we decide important shit at noisebridge. If noisebridge had a constitution, the consensus process is how we'd made amendments. Different from voting tho, we try to get everyone to agree when something fundamental about noisebridge changes, through the consensus process. Integral that it's more inclusive than voting: not about majority. Involves lots more discussing, meeting with people to work out problems, requires more maturity and work, but has a lot of benefits. There's an official concensus process listed on the wiki page - anyone unfamiliar w/ it can talk to Zach. Consensus items can be proposed by anyone, but only members can block - which is the only REALLY big thing about being a member at noisebridge. EG not renewing the lease. Members can block, like a veto.		Zach: A very very important process of how we decide important shit at noisebridge. If noisebridge had a constitution, the consensus process is how we'd made amendments. Different from voting tho, we try to get everyone to agree when something fundamental about noisebridge changes, through the consensus process. Integral that it's more inclusive than voting: not about majority. Involves lots more discussing, meeting with people to work out problems, requires more maturity and work, but has a lot of benefits. There's an official concensus process listed on the wiki page - anyone unfamiliar w/ it can talk to Zach. Consensus items can be proposed by anyone, but only members can block - which is the only REALLY big thing about being a member at noisebridge. EG not renewing the lease. Members can block, like a veto.
	Jarrod: Typically in practice, the consensus process discussions continue until either its clear that the proposal won't move forward, or it goes until it progresses towards actual consensus among everyone in the community. Minimum is two weeks - first week its proposed, where its also discussed. If the language that comes out of that meeting is good, it goes to next week, where any new developments are discussed again, more commentary is possible, and if everyone is still happy with it, then it gets consensed. Sometimes during the second meeting, the language of the proposal will be changed such that pushing it back is necessary, or sometimes the proposers aren't present for discussion. Generally as long as communication is happening, the process can be flexible.		Jarrod: Typically in practice, the consensus process discussions continue until either its clear that the proposal won't move forward, or it goes until it progresses towards actual consensus among everyone in the community. Minimum is two weeks - first week its proposed, where its also discussed. If the language that comes out of that meeting is good, it goes to next week, where any new developments are discussed again, more commentary is possible, and if everyone is still happy with it, then it gets consensed. Sometimes during the second meeting, the language of the proposal will be changed such that pushing it back is necessary, or sometimes the proposers aren't present for discussion. Generally as long as communication is happening, the process can be flexible.
	Steve: For membership, tho, its a 4 week process.		Steve: For membership, tho, its a 4 week process.
	Zach: There's a sort of ongoing discussion about clarifying the process b/c at the last meeting there was some confusion about it. If anyone wants to help with that, talk to Zach.		Zach: There's a sort of ongoing discussion about clarifying the process b/c at the last meeting there was some confusion about it. If anyone wants to help with that, talk to Zach.

	----		----

	Zach: A member at noisebridge is an unstoppable tyrant that you cant disagree with at any point, who has the power of Caesar and Alexander the Great combined! No no. Noisebridge members are like everyone else except they can veto shit, are committed to the space in a deeper way, and provide financial support for NB's rent and infrastructure toward that goal. Have 24/7 access. But w/ great power comes great responsibility, so if you let people in late, or give them keycard access, you're responsible for them and their behavior.		Zach: A member at noisebridge is an unstoppable tyrant that you cant disagree with at any point, who has the power of Caesar and Alexander the Great combined! No no. Noisebridge members are like everyone else except they can veto shit, are committed to the space in a deeper way, and provide financial support for NB's rent and infrastructure toward that goal. Have 24/7 access. But w/ great power comes great responsibility, so if you let people in late, or give them keycard access, you're responsible for them and their behavior.

	Ryan: The diff. between philanthropy and membership is pretty much only veto power, which overall doesn't get used very often.		Ryan: The diff. between philanthropy and membership is pretty much only veto power, which overall doesn't get used very often.
	Zach: Members can also sponsor philanthriopists, new members, which is worthwhile. Membership says something about how much you care about the space, more so than philanthropist does.		Zach: Members can also sponsor philanthriopists, new members, which is worthwhile. Membership says something about how much you care about the space, more so than philanthropist does.
	Jarrod: It also means I will nag you to get involved in big projects.. A lot.		Jarrod: It also means I will nag you to get involved in big projects.. A lot.

	Jarrod: Become a member by filling out the application, put it in the binder w/ sponsor signature, and then go through the process! 4 meetings reading it out, usually.		Jarrod: Become a member by filling out the application, put it in the binder w/ sponsor signature, and then go through the process! 4 meetings reading it out, usually.

	Current applications:		Current applications:

Beka: /* Philanthropists */

2017-11-03T05:28:30Z

Philanthropists

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	No new philanthropists!		No new philanthropists!

	Jarrod: If you want 24h access to noisebridge, become a philanthropist! $80 a month, $40 starving hacker rate. Also take on responsibilities such as closing down the space. Apply for philanthropy w/ a form from the binder, get a member to sponsor, then after you become one, get in touch w/ treasurer and get RFID access in #rack.		Jarrod: If you want 24h access to noisebridge, become a philanthropist! $80 a month, $40 starving hacker rate. Also take on responsibilities such as closing down the space. Apply for philanthropy w/ a form from the binder, get a member to sponsor, then after you become one, get in touch w/ treasurer and get RFID access in #rack.
	Augur: Can also renew 30 day access tokens!		Augur: Can also renew 30 day access tokens!

	= [[ Membership Binder ]] =		= [[ Membership Binder ]] =

Beka: /* Participation */

2017-11-03T05:28:16Z

Participation

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	Jarrod: One way is if you're coming regularly and people know you, you can track down a member and get a 30 day day-time RFID access for the door. Beyond that, you can become a philanthropist, and take on additional responsibilities and pay a membership fee. Also you can become a member which is even more responsibilities. But in general you can participate just by coming to noisebridge and hacking on stuff w/ the tools and resources here, provide you're excellent when doing it. Feel free to use the space and hack on the space and modify things.		Jarrod: One way is if you're coming regularly and people know you, you can track down a member and get a 30 day day-time RFID access for the door. Beyond that, you can become a philanthropist, and take on additional responsibilities and pay a membership fee. Also you can become a member which is even more responsibilities. But in general you can participate just by coming to noisebridge and hacking on stuff w/ the tools and resources here, provide you're excellent when doing it. Feel free to use the space and hack on the space and modify things.
	Ryan: Please dont hack on Do Not Hack things, and if you're moving someone's project, please let them know, leave a note, etc.		Ryan: Please dont hack on Do Not Hack things, and if you're moving someone's project, please let them know, leave a note, etc.
	NickH: Communication is important! When in doubt, communicate! Leave notes, etc!		NickH: Communication is important! When in doubt, communicate! Leave notes, etc!

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	If any important discussion happens, it should be happening after forward progress is made during consensus.		If any important discussion happens, it should be happening after forward progress is made during consensus.

	Zach's discussion item		===Zach's discussion item===
	~~----------------------~~

	Zach: Work in process trying to clarify the consensus process, b/c the wiki documentation isn't very clearly written. So that in the future, the process is easier to understand for everyone involved. The recent consensus proposal lead to a ton of confusion from people, b/c of things that aren't in the wiki that ppl are strongly opinionated about (eg quorum), plus some things in the wiki are confusing (eg changing text of the proposal, as long as the modification isn't "radical", but what does that mean?). The idea that clarification of what it means to not have consensus with people who don't come to meetings, and is consensus by people who come to meetings or do we have to use slack, or any particular platform, for communicating consensus items? If you don't read the discuss list, or the notes, etc. is this a problem for participating in consensus? Possibly also we should modify the consensus process to make it all clearer, but this obviously requires loooots of discussion.		Zach: Work in process trying to clarify the consensus process, b/c the wiki documentation isn't very clearly written. So that in the future, the process is easier to understand for everyone involved. The recent consensus proposal lead to a ton of confusion from people, b/c of things that aren't in the wiki that ppl are strongly opinionated about (eg quorum), plus some things in the wiki are confusing (eg changing text of the proposal, as long as the modification isn't "radical", but what does that mean?). The idea that clarification of what it means to not have consensus with people who don't come to meetings, and is consensus by people who come to meetings or do we have to use slack, or any particular platform, for communicating consensus items? If you don't read the discuss list, or the notes, etc. is this a problem for participating in consensus? Possibly also we should modify the consensus process to make it all clearer, but this obviously requires loooots of discussion.

	Jarrod: summary: What's quorum?? Altered text?? What really is the process?? Is slack required, or not??		Jarrod: summary: What's quorum?? Altered text?? What really is the process?? Is slack required, or not??

	Augur: Can ppl retroactively block b/c this was mentioned in slack but it sounds shady.		Augur: Can ppl retroactively block b/c this was mentioned in slack but it sounds shady.
	Torrie mentions effective retroactive blocking by not doing the work to make a thing happen, eg. financial work by the treasurer.		Torrie mentions effective retroactive blocking by not doing the work to make a thing happen, eg. financial work by the treasurer.

	Adrian: What's up w/ quorum?		Adrian: What's up w/ quorum?
	Jarrod: It seems to be a new thing, tbh. Used to have lots of people here, but now only a handful of members.		Jarrod: It seems to be a new thing, tbh. Used to have lots of people here, but now only a handful of members.

	Steve: Where do these things need to be advertised??		Steve: Where do these things need to be advertised??
	Zach: That's related to the question of how you get members to meetings to participate if there really is a quorum requirement. I feel like noisebridge is a community that you can participate to the extent you want to, so if you don't participate, it's your choice, and if something is really important to you, you should be active, read the meeting notes, come to meetings. If I choose not to, it's on me if I don't see something that's been in the meeting notes that I don't like. Also about quorum, it's not like there's just three ppl here, there's a table full of people, they're just not all members, but they DO participate and contribute to noisebridge, so needing some minimum of membership seems too much. Another thing that doesn't make sense to me is, I was explicitly told to post on NB discuss about this item w/ the text, I did that, and that's what launched a long discussion w/ multiple people, so it was out there. So if members don't show up to block, it seems like a strange burden on the proposer that you need to go get some of members to be physically present before an item can be consensed on. Another really important thing about the process in the wiki is that it says you can have someone proxy for you, so quorum is kind of easier in principle.		Zach: That's related to the question of how you get members to meetings to participate if there really is a quorum requirement. I feel like noisebridge is a community that you can participate to the extent you want to, so if you don't participate, it's your choice, and if something is really important to you, you should be active, read the meeting notes, come to meetings. If I choose not to, it's on me if I don't see something that's been in the meeting notes that I don't like. Also about quorum, it's not like there's just three ppl here, there's a table full of people, they're just not all members, but they DO participate and contribute to noisebridge, so needing some minimum of membership seems too much. Another thing that doesn't make sense to me is, I was explicitly told to post on NB discuss about this item w/ the text, I did that, and that's what launched a long discussion w/ multiple people, so it was out there. So if members don't show up to block, it seems like a strange burden on the proposer that you need to go get some of members to be physically present before an item can be consensed on. Another really important thing about the process in the wiki is that it says you can have someone proxy for you, so quorum is kind of easier in principle.

	Jarrod: Zach's description sounds like he went through all the right channels. Back in the day there were 4 things for validity: proposed at meeting and recorded in notes, placed on the current items wiki page, and brought up on discuss for discussion (so 4 locations it can appear). this used to be the process of due diligence.		Jarrod: Zach's description sounds like he went through all the right channels. Back in the day there were 4 things for validity: proposed at meeting and recorded in notes, placed on the current items wiki page, and brought up on discuss for discussion (so 4 locations it can appear). this used to be the process of due diligence.
	Adrian: No official list of ways to bring the item to the community. Would like to add slack as a recommended place to propose it (could posted by anyone, not just the proposer).		Adrian: No official list of ways to bring the item to the community. Would like to add slack as a recommended place to propose it (could posted by anyone, not just the proposer).
	Zach: The current items page was not listed on the consensus doc page as a place where things need to be posted. As a whole, this is a lot of process and takes such a lot of time and effort, and adding more things, like slack, to this process is an even bigger thing. We should have a big conversation about this change, esp. given that slack is a big corporate entity, that it's a privately-owned communication medium, etc. If anyone has info on slack privacy policies and practices, I'd be interested in reading, b/c this is a concern. I think it's just not in line w/ the 501c3 to have slack be such a central, required part of the process of noisebridge, as opposed to just a convenient tool people choose to use.		Zach: The current items page was not listed on the consensus doc page as a place where things need to be posted. As a whole, this is a lot of process and takes such a lot of time and effort, and adding more things, like slack, to this process is an even bigger thing. We should have a big conversation about this change, esp. given that slack is a big corporate entity, that it's a privately-owned communication medium, etc. If anyone has info on slack privacy policies and practices, I'd be interested in reading, b/c this is a concern. I think it's just not in line w/ the 501c3 to have slack be such a central, required part of the process of noisebridge, as opposed to just a convenient tool people choose to use.
	Kevin: Slack being a chat app is more about conversations and very much about syncronous convos. The mailing list is very asynchronous, there's an expectation of delay where convos take time. I think there are numerous issues with making slack an official medium for getting business done. Great place to have convos that make up business, but not good for it as a place of record, announcement, etc. It's too mashed up, not collected into topics, reply threads, etc. Also slack is invite only, not very accessible, while the mailing list is public. Slack also isn't very accessible, requires good typing speed, good eyesight, etc.		Kevin: Slack being a chat app is more about conversations and very much about syncronous convos. The mailing list is very asynchronous, there's an expectation of delay where convos take time. I think there are numerous issues with making slack an official medium for getting business done. Great place to have convos that make up business, but not good for it as a place of record, announcement, etc. It's too mashed up, not collected into topics, reply threads, etc. Also slack is invite only, not very accessible, while the mailing list is public. Slack also isn't very accessible, requires good typing speed, good eyesight, etc.

	Steve: I was just going to ask if there could be some kind of online tools??		Steve: I was just going to ask if there could be some kind of online tools??

	Zach: Additionally, who's the admin for discuss?		Zach: Additionally, who's the admin for discuss?
	Jarrod: Maybe Andy Isaacson? Maybe Danny O'Brian?		Jarrod: Maybe Andy Isaacson? Maybe Danny O'Brian?

	Ryan's discussion items		===Ryan's discussion items===
	~~-----------------------~~

	Ryan: City College is starting to build makerspaces and we're going to have a somewhat large meeting tomorrow 2-4pm at the CC library media center (3rd floor, first floor from the front entrance w/ the hill) which is going to become one of the makerspaces. I'd be happy if anyone could make it or message me any info you'd like me to bring up. I'm @pyconaut on slack. The mediacenter one is going to be mostly computer and VR dev stuff, not so much electronics hacking. It's a large space tho and is in the library, and it will be public access, as CC library is a public library, so everyone at noisebridge can use it.		Ryan: City College is starting to build makerspaces and we're going to have a somewhat large meeting tomorrow 2-4pm at the CC library media center (3rd floor, first floor from the front entrance w/ the hill) which is going to become one of the makerspaces. I'd be happy if anyone could make it or message me any info you'd like me to bring up. I'm @pyconaut on slack. The mediacenter one is going to be mostly computer and VR dev stuff, not so much electronics hacking. It's a large space tho and is in the library, and it will be public access, as CC library is a public library, so everyone at noisebridge can use it.

	= End of Meeting =		= End of Meeting =